Andrey Rushkovskyi. Today's guest "options"-Boris Yegiazaryan. The artist, a man who lives an active social life, a man past Maidan from beginning to end. More than a year has passed since these events, and you, Boren′ka, was at the beginning, during the night, during the first acceleration Maidana. As it is now evaluated those events, those adventures?
Boris Yegiazaryan. Many of us from the very first days passed this heavy long-term period-Maidan siege.
AR. Then it was one life is a peculiar and unique experiences, but now time has passed. If you gaze at those events, something has changed, some moments of skorrektirovalis′ in perception?
BAIE. We look at the whole period Maidana from beginning to victory-what we called a revolution … Sometimes I remember majdanovskie nights, some moments. It has been a long time. Suddenly in the middle of the night, I remember, analyze events, actions, and I feel terrible. Then it was not. Then all were together. When shot at, beaten, sometimes frightening, concrete, really. But there was a high rise, and were all time moments when you realize that you can die. From this it was not scary. It was scary when the morning we became less or people froze, or gone, or have not seen the terrible danger. And you realize that the younger, now, all real and all-end. The end of freedom, the end of an idea, the end of the State, the country, hope. That's when it happened is terrible.
AR. And you didn't think that if there were such resolute action by the authorities, if dispersed Maidan, then released the next day, the whole town?
BAIE. And sometimes, when the beat when the victim appeared, then left the whole town. Horrified by what was happening. But it is not clear if we lost heavily, if we couldn't resist, where would city? At The Bottom? When come days-18, 19, 20 February, the last days of the battle, it is war. Maidan was not supposed to lose. If Maidan lost and was captured, maybe people saw it, though he lost the war with the authorities. Type mode won. Could be a temporary depression, but still then people would have exploded.
AR. It seems to me, would be an instant response.
BAIE. In any case, then everything that happened, it became not just a matter of principle or moral, but spiritual. This was spiritual unity of people. Irregularity, provocation-which was not only on the Maidan! There was nth percentage-10/15/20-15-20% is constantly present, which could provoke a run on the enemy. But Maidan was a powerful spiritual substance, which-even if there were the wrong things-like wave, washed, cleaned and put everything in its place. Samoočiŝalsâ Maidan, samoispravlâlsâ, there all at once were leaders. The then leaders of the Maidan, where now there is a huge barrage of criticism, because of how much time has passed, and we don't live in a civilized and rich European Ukraine. Why? And yet the war! What do you do? You that we cheated?
AR. To our civilized life, we still get.
BAIE. In General, all were equal. Any leader, any unit, personality. This was the power, this was wisdom in this was spirituality. And this little Majdan was the layout of the future great European State. And he was in the war. That is why I say that if we had lost those battles, it would be a defeat. But we won, maintained, if unequal forces still stood. Now this Maydan expanded all over Ukraine, and has become more difficult. Concentration has become a solid diamond is a beautiful, strong, spiritual, bold. Now the whole country is a huge Maidan, but there is the spirit of unity, commitment, dedication. And 10-15 per cent, which was something treacherous, as in every country, every people sometimes, which provoked and then worked for the Federal Security Service, or SBU they stayed. And not only them, maybe even more. Russia much of its garbage fled-metallic stun and human, so much prignala in the Donbass and attempts to distribute throughout Ukraine. Time is complicated. It is necessary to think very seriously again.
AR. Still barely still on those times. But any mistakes, which is seen from today-could not commit?
BAIE. I can't say whether this is a mistake or it was correct-the history and time will be shown. But I had a different opinion when the standoff began Hrushevsky. I have the first two or three days, saying that this will not participate. But since all back and stretched the Maidan have already merged with Grushevskogo, I, like many, has joined. And Facebook wrote that did not want the firing point. You can catch up on majdanovskoj force, continue to fight. If necessary, left two million concerned want to have surrounded and said: give up! If it would. But when it happened to Hrushevskyi. I can't judge whether it was right or wrong. It turns out that it was provoked. I now can not analyze how the investigator. In fact, from there the battle for freedom. Where were the victims, and we won. But the whole majdannyj period-there are many interviews that I gave and which do not go anywhere-I assumed otherwise. I believed that we can reach the morning remain two to three thousand people remaining went to sleep and constantly on duty at half a million. It was such a powerful force that authorities should have to give up, and Maydan had to win without casualties. So I thought. But I can't say whether it was or not. Because over time we realized that these victims were the Holy sacrificial blood.
Sacrificial blood on the altar of victory. This does not mean that you had to have been the victim. The war began on November 30. True, then not firing, but it was the beginning of the war, because it was the beginning of unjustified, criminal atrocities. And then actually went all. I think that this was the plan-not just beat people. Then they could release the Maidan 300 militiamen. Now demand to punish the "Berkut". Those who shot that beat, not a huge amount is not 6 thousands of "berkutovcev". They had advanced units who did the dirty work. The rest was the background. Those who have committed crimes, get loose for a long time. Together with Yanukovych. The entire team of udrala, because they are the one to another witness. A lot of "berkutovcev" is now battling. Maêm maêm scho … It was arranged even earlier, as Russia will enslave Ukraine. I think it happened in negotiations with Yanukovych-sly-Sly or war.
AR. And how these Russian plans succeed? How do they come true?
BAIE. During the Orange Revolution Putin thought, as "keruvati", how to put it in place. But Putin loses all the time … After Orange, when all went the shortcomings when people climbed on some level, but then lost all the gains. We lost. No need to accuse Yushchenko-we climbed we lost. We were not prepared as civil society. But now in a different way. When the revolution named Revolution dignity really happened differently. Blood is spilled, innocent blood. And people otherwise look. But if we are now-the whole country is not protecting its achievement, it will be our loss. But what is here is war, today Putin loses, Russia loses. I disagree with anyone who says what? nine months, as the revolution took place, and what we have achieved? Poverty and stuff … Even if it's say or Patriots of Ukraine, offended the regime. I am not advocating that permanently scold his power.
AR. But we were involved in 23 years.
BAIE. And how from this step aside? Who came to power, the enemy already. So you cannot. Global statesmanship is to hold any power under control, under fire from critics. Literally day and night to keep watch is correct. Must be public thinking. If we look at what happened in France-"Charlie"-in one of the most civilized and affluent countries of the world, where the whole system works. Gone, killed people, gone. And then in another place captured people again and people were killed. And the people of France have not stood up and said: not that kind of a country that for the President that for the army, which for the security service? Vaughn, all-retire, you can't protect us! But they all stood up with his State. All! "La Marseillaise" sang four million. They could criticize: we feel unprotected! But they have not said so, interpreted it as trouble. No matter who the enemy is. But the enemy, the killer went on your citizen, your peace and quiet. In Ukraine, too, so it must be. If the enemy went at you, you must not be rotated, rather than to stand against the enemy. Each in its place, each of their labour, their abilities. When the war! And I instead stand against the enemy, turn and throw stones in their type is you have to blame the enemy went at us. Think something should be. Everyone has a responsibility. I don't think I have, have you or someone-each in its place-less responsibility than the President, Prime Minister or a Minister. I am just an artist, I have less responsibility than that of Minister of culture and Minister of defence. But, first, I have the right to go to the front, like any general and stand up for this country. Nobody does not deprive me of the right. Another question, why I do or don't do. From my words, that I tell people I'm depends on the State, the statesmen-those whom I consider decent, which I chose to whom I gave the mandate of confidence-I put them down or I get up close. Because trouble is common. So in France all rose.
Princess with blue lion
AR. We have probably has its own nuances. Claims appear to power: why nobody punished? Since acceleration 30 November …
BAIE. I can say. Until the power was off, his would not punish.
AR. This period is clear.
BAIE. And once came to power already with Maidana.
AR. First President became Poroshenko, and then Parliament changed.
BAIE. Those who did these crimes, under the wing of Russia. The security service was not. They all get loose-one team. I can't justify that this is not the case, but I don't see an argument for myself, I cannot say, as you had to do and didn't. When there was no security service that could catch them. The security service was such that was to get away. And gone. The question now is this: let us all our humbling-by what right are you still all command of Viktor Yanukovych from Russia not brought here? Out of sight! Or what right you didn't win and not released all Donbass? Down with all generals! I'm not saying that they're there all clean and Holy. In General, and the lads who with Maidana went to fight, and generals do not have experience of such a war. This dirty war. Easy to come on tv channel and is all on soaps: and this is a traitor, and the. I'm not talking about the corruptionists. With this we have to fight is to identify the judge. But this does not mean that one size fits all-all and sundry. There is dignity, dignity officer higher officers cannot all demean. There are a huge number of people who work day and night, because there are army from nothing. An army, its doctrine of building for decades. Of course, this is thanks to the lives of the brave guys. These brave guys, the colonels were, generals, lieutenants, Commander-in-Chief need moral support. They need to believe, somewhere shoulder substitute. So, how do volunteers. By the way, volunteers never criticize and don't throw stones or bad word-they do. And there are people who enjoy authority volunteers, military guys. Somehow it has become fashionable and in Parliament, and somewhere: I just spoke on the phone with the boys-"cyborgs" and turns around and starts to lower power. All! Well, it cannot be so! You cannot make war populism. Should be, as in wartime, the word responsibility. You said-you need to have a very serious argument.
AR. Here there is still one problem. We are talking about war, but officially it is called ATO. You're no "scissors" can't you see?
BAIE. This conversation is going very seriously. I am a person who is in their country, Armenia, once the war endured.
AR. You actively participated? In Nagorno-Karabakh?
BAIE. I included the squad stood on the border of Armenia. There are about twelve villages. A small detachment, with hunting rifles and homemade grenades. I defended border. Time was so heavy. Then began larger scale war. What is the difference, as it is called-ATO or war? Here you can argue I am not a military expert and not an international lawyer. I can't say firmly, why and how. But I think that if Ukraine were profitable now call it a war. Because Ukraine now is not one, it has allies. Do you want to-don't want war started. These allies Russia, not China, not Iran, not Turkey, Kazakhstan, and not the European Union and America. The most powerful economy in the world, the most powerful military force. And diplomatically Ukraine has great successes. There are people in the Ukrainian Government, starting with the Minister of Foreign Affairs, military chiefs, President … As I understand it-I can be naive. But European Nations and America-they are not naïve. If they are talking with our leaders on a par and remain allies, so I think they are a little more information than we have.
AR. Your logic is naive.
BAIE. If it were profitable Ukraine say war. .. If Ukraine calls it a war, it is first declared war. He said: I have nothing to do with it. Some Cossacks fled. And if Ukraine calls that it in the war with Russia, he means, declares war. And what this means. These conversations are ambiguous. Or declare the territory of Donbass area of martial law and say that will all work. In the area of martial law to power come the military. If we are afraid to trust our military in providing army, how they can entrust authority? … There are the laws of Economics, the Treaty, which in the period of Declaration of martial law will be annulled. An economic collapse could occur. I can not judge, but I know that serious Western experts talking with our. And I know one thing: despite the fact that these false Armistice, still shoot time is working for us. In General, this war is not Ukraine. Unfortunately, there are victims. But we must not forget that with the side a lot more victims. War is terrible because it runs on your territory and citizens live there, which are considered to be yours. Coming from Russia of the killer put in towns and villages with artillery and then beaten. Back to destroy them, without harming the population impossible. It's too much complexity-to destroy these pillboxes. But, despite this, Ukraine. And time is working for us. Only have to stay, not to betray themselves.
AR. And yet out of this situation you visible?
BAIE. Temporary or historical output no one can name. And I think that there is only one way out of the situation-it's a great unity of the whole Ukraine. Then will the public thinking. When all Ukrainians defend their family and everyone defends his State as a family. When will go even greater difficulties on the one hand, the need for reform, and on the other hand, reform is a painful period. War, economy in a very serious condition, Russia will have to demolish and destroy. And the need to not only survive, but also to win. It is not the case that Ukraine should reach Moscow and take the Kremlin. Ukraine should not do a single step across the border. And 50 meters are not needed. Victory to build a State. Not to miss the historic chance to become a European State is another release of Ukraine No. Defeat will win if offended, for which greater value than the State of Ukraine, is the desire to prove that the authorities are the same as Yanukovych. Any marazmaticheskaya idea! It turns out that this power cannot be an authority-democratic Ukraine it will vary. And as long as you have its power, its army, its President, its Prime Minister, their State structures, statesmen. And by the way, a lot of decent people came to power, decent people whom I have no right to blame. No, I can say that he is not a Saint, but I'm also not a Saint. We are all trying to become cleaner, the better. Must be thought that we are the State. And the State is the House. I knowingly gave the example of France.
AR. Look, but the enemy-we-let God! Putin. You see what is happening in Russia is very grim process.
BAIE. On the other hand, it is also a challenge. The Putin regime can unexpectedly as Yanukovych, who had a strong start to crumble. It can fall apart not revolutionary way, as we have, and maybe something so work. I don't know, but it will fall apart. Nope invincible power. The mere fact that in Russia … History knows that the regime would hold until wealth is over.
AR. But Putin has strong support on the part of the Russians.
BAIE. Support great, because dollars.
AR. And this is a terrible thing, that it was possible to brainwash people.
BAIE. But, despite the fact that the zombie-box from morning till evening works … If a month in Ukraine every tv and turn off then in Kiev a day, from morning till evening, watch Russian, I am not sure that 50% or not go mad, or not say, Hey, we don't know, it turns out, we're the junta. But in spite of that 20 percent of Russians still do not support it all. While zombie-box 20% of Russians means 50 million.
AR. A little smaller.
BAIE. And there's not support Putin means to go against their ideal. But quantitatively is the same people as in Ukraine. Another thing is that in Russia the big trouble. If Russia collapses, it will be very dangerous for anyone around. Knowing that such a neighbor, to be very vigilant to build their State.
AR. We somehow talked about sentiment in Armenia, and you said that there's also Russian propaganda very cool acted.
BAIE. Unfortunately, the Armenians are learning from Moscow that the next street is going on. So there is Russian propaganda is strong.
AR. But now, in connection with this terrible murder.
BAIE. So called "Charlie-Volnovakha-Gyumri. Russian soldiers from the machine kills family of seven! For what? Scary. Is that a coincidence? Some ominous fiction? But it happened. It all signals around the world of a terrible danger. Well, the LAD made him crazy, lost all benchmarks humanity. This is Putin's regime. Whether it's the kadyrovtsy who fight or Cossacks, or zombied Donetsk guys who stood up against Ukraine. Ozverevšij killer lifted his head. And the whole world is going through. Europe is afraid of. And therefore all steps in Europe, in America are going to calm down this beast. It is necessary to be cautious. I think that Europe would be easier to give a certain number of weapons Ukraine. But there is a danger that Russia already freely, openly here moves. And on the territory of Ukraine will be a war between Europe and Russia, in which Ukraine will suffer terribly. I think it is important now to strengthen both the Ukrainian army and the Ukrainian State to Russia gradually became proigryšno and disadvantageous to fight. But it's still a lot of resources and debris shooting.
AR. Economic measures seriously affect Russia. This is not a joke.
BAIE. And will continue to act uskorennee. Ukraine should stay. Now declared mobilization, and begins a critique. Yes, God forbid that happened! How could it be otherwise? Your enemy should know that mobilized so much-it is not necessary that all went in Donbass to fight. Yes everything is there and won't fit. The State must be the army, which in which case ugomonit and domestic opponents, separatists and bandits, its traitors. Don't we have chosen war, it imposed. It's like fate. If a person is sick, need not beat on the wall, and be healed. And protect yourself.
House of joy
AR. We talk mostly about politics. But I want to remember at the end that you are an artist. Do you remember about it? As life affect creativity? Very simplistic question.
BAIE. Motives for creative inspiration. And not just because there's a war. More vdohnovlennosti people during the revolution. But now the situation has gone gray-no frost and not summer. It is hard for me to really work. When Armenia was a period of war, hunger, cold, 88-91-th years, I worked for three years. I was naturally in these events, as all, saved their country. This was a watershed period. Then I went back to painting, made or done. And the period of the revolution I have not worked. I had no inspiration, the soul was crying, waiting, when I start working. To say that I'm now reaching into emotions and joy in creativity? No, because very worried for everything that happens. The soul is not calm. But I believe that is obliged to paint pictures. God will give the time. Even sell these paintings, exhibit, share with the people, that is their job to do. Again making money and where possible help to the State, the wounded, the sick. We are here to help, but tried publicly in people resources run out, even the savings are running out. It must also be taken into account. But that is no reason to claim that all that I had, I gave, I have nothing more. And what is it? Cut this State, let's new Maidan! Yes No, guys! I have run out of resources, but, thank God, live, hands-feet should continue to work. We will build and live. No such difficulties people have experienced. In this historical period. I think Ukraine year will then start to go for the best. I think so.
AR. Come on this optimistic note okončim our conversation. Thank you, and thank you very much Cafe "Kalina", which confessed to us.
BAIE. Thanks to all. Thank you for the interview.